Episode #232: Gregg Goodhart

Dana GoodierOut of the Trenches Podcast

Educators need a bit more than a little background. Definition of learning: Acquiring knowledge/skills to have, work on getting knowledge. Click To TweetGregg Goodhart is a pioneer in translating research science to learning superior achievement in the classroom, boardroom, and anything else. A recovering high school music teacher (13 yrs), he found within teaching music the fundamental principles that allow for accelerated improvement commonly referred to as talent. This was a result of serious interest in, and study of, cognitive and behavioral neuroscience and psychology that teachers are not taught in teacher training programs. Using his teaching as a lab to experiment with these ideas he developed unique expertise in explaining to anyone the elements needed to reach any level of success with any skill that is desired.

He occupies a singular place as a translator between the research and practical use in our lives. You won’t hear about these things the way he presents them anywhere else. What is actually possible in our own achievement is mind-blowing – no ‘talent’ necessary.

Trenches story: Shares 2. Greatest lesson as a teacher. No One taught him. A student who was far behind. They were convinced he was doing all his work. Asked student to work on it every night. Repetition. 2 wks passed, did warm-ups. St admitted he’d only done it once. Gregg asked why only once. He answered “I don’t know”. He believed he was doing everything. What we’re doing should be working. Much of time they’re not following directions. 2nd story- He was serious to find best ways teaching works. Went to conferences. Was piecing together strategies/ideas. Hard-fought battle. Tried to figure out what talent was for 5 yrs. Didn’t use the science he now teaches. Picked up Talent is Overrated by Jeff Kolburn. It blew his mind. He started talk about mental models. It was when he could see 30K’ view of all of education and how it worked. It was the germ of what he does now- this happened in 2010.

Why do you think our schools aren’t teaching students how to learn? Mental model- the more you know the more you can know. F. ex. his mom doesn’t have a mental model for football. If you want class participation-use have to use facts. Deliberate practice. Memory techniques, retrieval. Dunning-Kruger effect. Having less knowledge makes it harder to achieve more knowledge. During his faculty PDs, staff won’t consider all the answers. Why do we have G/T programs?

How would you start doing this in the CR? First step-get things into long-term memory- then get things out. Encode information in LT memory properly. Why is learning made fun (looking for states of flow). Do low-level problem solving by engaging in practice. “Talent is overrated” by deliberate practice. How to create motivation, self control. Learning works 1 way for everyone, he says there is a gap b/w research & practice. Researchers don’t know how to speak “teacher”. Rebellion over rote memorization in the 70’s. College st’s have passes adm test. Kids don’t know how to incorporate it into pre-college CR. When he talks to faculty, he talks about building a memory palace. Times them. Learning is an ecosystem. Synergistic. Associative member. Our system is amazing of getting things into ppl’s memories. You have to store things in your memory first- encoding. Testing effect shows us that getting a memory wrong is less repetition spaced over time is better than doing things over & over. It becomes stronger even tho we didn’t use it. Great book “The Memory Book” (from 70’s). Why don’t we use this? Mindset- they need to have more of a growth mindset. Many kids aren’t sure of their answers.

Why is talent so overrated? Can anyone really perfect their practice and perform optimally anytime they want? It’s the great misunderstanding of talent. A lot of talented athletes/musicians are trained by a parent, Tiger Woods f.ex. It happens so slowly you don’t notice the process. It’s not just the amount of work but the type of work.

What do really talented musicians know that the rest of us don’t? How can they play so well while others cannot? He built a program that actually managed to get kids successful. Kids will get good at music if they practice it’s not about talent. Non skilled musicians get better w/ practice.

Most of the population seems to have stage fright, so what’s the secret to overcoming it once and for all? He’s written a supplement to a book for musicians on it. We look to diagnosis- society anxiety disorder w/ performance indicator. Shows up at 12%. He says it affects 99% of ppl. You have to have complete recall/mastery in order to perform. Retrieval- pulling info out of nowhere. You get used to being in front of ppl. Deliberate practice- plan, do, reflect triangle.  (visual he shows). Because we’re not taught how to learn we say ”I tried everything”. There are things that aren’t obvious to humans. Testing anxiety-even those diagnosed with social anxiety disorder can.

Out of everything? how important long-term memory is. “Make it stick” is a great book. Educators need a bit more than a little background. Definition of learning: Acquiring knowledge/skills to have, work on getting knowledge.

Where can ppl find you online? https://www.crackingthetalentcode.us/free-guide– it’s specifically for music. Is writing a book, will have a waitlist for a chapter or two for free. www.gregggodhart.com has a lot of resources for no matter @TheLEarningCoach on FB, @Art & Science of Practicing Solutions private FB group as well. On IG as well.

View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/-ukKT11HOlc



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